THE BEGINNING (origins of the elemental spirits Book 1)

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But the Rephaim also had another awful association. Joshua and tell us that the Valley of the Rephaim adjoined another valley—the Valley of Hinnom, also known as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom. It was during this era that books like 1 Enoch were written, as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

In the book of 1 Enoch the villainous sons of God of Genesis are not only called angels—they are called Watchers. The link back to the Mesopotamian apkallu is transparent and unmistakable. In those days, when the children of man had multiplied, it happened that there were born unto them handsome and beautiful daughters. And they took wives unto themselves, and everyone respectively chose one woman for himself, and they began to go unto them.

Then Michael, Surafel, and Gabriel observed carefully from the sky and they saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all the oppression being wrought upon the earth. As for the women, they gave birth to giants to the degree that the whole earth was filled with blood and oppression. And now behold, the Holy One will cry, and those who have died will bring their suit up to the gate of heaven.

Their groaning has ascended into heaven , but they could not get out from before the face of the oppression that is being wrought on earth. And send them against one another so that they may be destroyed in the fight, for length of days have they not. But now the giants who are born from the union of the spirits and the flesh shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, because their dwelling shall be upon the earth and inside the earth.

Because from the day that they were created from the holy ones they became the Watchers; their first origin is the spiritual foundation. They will become evil upon the earth and shall be called evil spirits.

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Charlesworth, Old Testament Pseudepigrapha , vol. The message to most Bible readers is that, when it comes to the supernatural worldview of the Bible, what you think you know may not be so.

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Get it now. Doesn't 1 Enoch 6 presuppose fallen angels who wish to have children with the daughters of men? Yes — the Watchers an Enochian term for the sons of God fathered children with human women sexually or otherwise — see The Unseen Realm for the distinction. For all that information, see The Unseen Realm.

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The problem here is terminology. This terminological problem is discussed in The Unseen Realm. More specifically, the sons of God who are the focus of Gen 6 were rebellious they sinned when they decided to do what they did. WE CONFLATE these two ideas in church tradition, which causes confusion when you want to talk about the primary texts and what they say biblical text or other ancient texts. So … yes, the sons of God of Gen 6 were in rebellion and sinful. But they are not the demons of the NT period. They are imprisoned until the time of the end in all the material.

Demons, on the other hand, roam the earth seeking embodiment. The unified view of Second Temple Judaism carried on in Christianity for some time as well. If angels have procreative power how are we to determine if the "humans" we see today are not mixed species? The assumption in the article is that angels have creative power to perform physical sex with physical "seed" to impregnate human women.

That is a more terrifying proposition and not a helpful one except for the Halloween scare. We loase reason to believe that the risen Jesus was the risen Jesus and not a masquerading devil who would imitate his appearance. The children of the angels are described as giants so if there were any mixed species, you would easily tell. Incidentally, the assumption in The Unseen Realm is not necessarily that divine beings physically procreated though that isn't disallowed, either.

There is a second supernaturalist view that for some reason no one else seems to have seen. Generally in relation to the procreative option , if the required form of drees for angels divine beings interacting with humans is flesh, then flesh can do what flesh can do. All of the issues are addressed in the book in some detail, with lots of sources for further research. Mike, I see you referencing your own book quite a bit, but where else are these ideas of yours coming from? There are hundreds of footnotes and all peer-reviewed sources in them.

My personal bibliography for all the items covered in the book is currently at entries pp. We wanted to watch the page count, so that seemed like the best thing to do. Nothing in it is unique to me. Every conclusion about the worldview of the writers and providing the exegesis for those conclusions is supported by peer-reviewed scholarship. My role is synthesis of the mountain of material — putting it all into a readable meta narrative.

Knowing their origin didn't seem to matter to Jesus who knew their destiny. Regardless, they submit to the name of Jesus and we should be teaching people how to use their authority against them.

The Elemental Spirits

But the Rapha issue has text-critical issues. This is the biblical-textual trail.

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Far too long for a forum. Heiser, Thanks for your reply. My question is not about the fact that Nephilim and their offspring are described as present pre and post flood, but how did their genetic material turn up post flood when all the genetic lines were destroyed except for those on the ark. It seems that 1 one or more of the eight surviving humans on the ark transmitted the genetic material of the Nephilim, or 2 the angels re-enacted their pre-flood transgression after the flood on uncontaminated human genes, or 3 the post flood phenomenon is something different that is connected to the pre-flood Nephilim in name only and not genetically in spite of their similarities.

It seems to a riddle to me for which I have no explanation. Thanks for your time. I bought The Unseen Realm and skipped to the part where you address my specific question. Possibilities were given, but not direct answers from what I can remember. But there is also the possibility that my memory is faulty here.

There was a lot to absorb. It would seem to me that there are only two possibilities for WHY Nephilim are mentioned again after Genesis 6. Hello again Larry, Just saw and read the responses to your OP. I overlooked them previously. I think you hit it on the nail with your three possibilities. The only problem I have with number one is that this would seem to negate the reasoning behind the flood. If the point of the flood was to rid the human race from its contamination, then surely God would not have allowed ANY tainted human genetic material to survive.

Apparently Noah,his sons, and daughters-in-law were untainted by the hybrid race. So for me, the only plausible scenario as to why the Nephilim turn up again after Gen 6 are your possibilities 2 and 3. These are the same scenarios I was mulling over as well. Excellent question. I wondered the same thing. And this is what passes for "high browed scholarship"?

The Elemental Spirits of Birth and Death By Rudolf Steiner

Maybe its not such a bad thing that I never attended seminary! It is. And the latter statement is a maybe.

Read the book, and then refute it, if you can. Hi Mike, thank you for your interesting insights. Are the daughters of men also considered guilty or are their fathers for giving them willingly to Angels? Thanks in advance for your answers. Why does the Genesis 6 account not mention any spiritual beings when it came to the punishment metered out for the actions of the sons of the gods and the daughters of men?

If the text meant spiritual beings surely God who is a just God would have punished the Spiritual beings and the human females who had been involved. However he doesn't he punishes the whole of humanity by limiting their life firstly to years and then he proceeds to wipe them out with a flood? In order to hold this view — a very weak weaving of barely related subjects — one has to:. Deny a global flood 2. Hold a near inspired status of the intertestamental writings that are barely alluded to, and certainly are not quoted theologically on this matter.

From Modern Mythcraft to Magical Surrealism

Place a great deal of trust in pagan theological texts. So if you had taken a class in Biblical interpretation just undergrad not, grad, or Ph. Three last points. Michael was clear that he is not teaching doctrine. Secondly, that there is no scriptural support for the classical view which you haplessly confirmed in your post without textual references.

The sons of God, the Nephilim, and the Mesopotamian Apkallu

Opps I guess I did. Heiser and Logos have materials that can improve your scholarship immensely. And I mean Immensely. Best of luck. Not hard to find so called ' facts' to prove your talking points, to help sell your stupid book when you only look in one direction for resources…. Tony, I must say, I think it would be more productive to come to the table with a little more respect and humility.

THE BEGINNING (origins of the elemental spirits Book 1) THE BEGINNING (origins of the elemental spirits Book 1)
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